nothing else, remove spears's father from any control of her affairs immediately. the singer's attorney also calling for an investigation into allegations that her father and a company he hired secretly placed a recording device in her home and monitored her cell phone as claimed by the "new york times". a lawyer for jamie would not comment on these allegations but said in a previous statement to cnn, all of his actions were well within the parameters on the authority conferred upon him by the court and his actions were done with the knowledge and consent of britney, her court-appointed attorney, and/or the court. britney made bombshell claims. >> she said it was abusive. >> she said she's been given lithium against her will. >> she is not allowed to remove her iud contraceptive. >> during july testimony, she said she wants to charge her

father with conservatorship abuse. he said he loves his daughter unwaveringly. >> free brittany now. >> they have drawn a massive following online and in person at the los angeles county superior courthouse. the free britney movement have been protesting for the removal of her father and the termination of the conservatorship for months and promised to show up in full effect to see if she finally gets her freedom. it's unclear whether the gram where award winner will appear virtually this time and give the court and her fans another chance to hear from her. john, britney called in to the last two hearings and made, you know, these emotional allegations of what her live has been like the last 13 years. many of us, including myself, are wondering will she call in

today or perhaps could she show up in person? much to the delight of her fans who have been wanting to see her. so i think there could be a chance. never say never. >> that would be high drama. chloe melas, thank you for reporting for us. >> thank you. "new day" continues right now. ♪ welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm brianna keilar with john berman on this "new day". it is wednesday, september 29th. and the clock is ticking. tomorrow night the federal government could begin shutting down. and soon after that, we could see the systematic collapse of the u.s. economy. all of this in the hands of congress. and so is the fate of president biden's legislative agenda during this week from hell. this morning democrats running out of patience and time with two of their own. senators joe manchin and kyrsten

sinema both met with the president yesterday. both still unwilling to get on with the price tag for the social safety net package. neither has come forward with a specific counter proposal saying this is what we want. and complicating matters, a liberal revolt in the house over speaker pelosi's plan to hold a vote tomorrow on a $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. joining us now, one of the men in the middle of this all, josh got heimer of new jersey, the chair of the problem-solvers caucus, lead moderate negotiator on the economic bill. you, sir, had the pleasure to be name-checked by tom friedman in the "new york times". let me read you a passage. the leader of the centrist democrats in the house and jayapal have the guts to stop issuing all or nothing ultimatums and instead given each other iron-lad assurances

that they will do something hard? do you? >> 100%. i haven't seen tom's story yet. but i agree on this. we have got to get this done. it starts this week with the bipartisan infrastructure plan, which you know is all about roads, bridges, tunnels, having us fight climate change. it passed out of the senate. it's been sitting in the house waiting for action. when it came out, it had 69 senators. it is critical to the president's agenda. we are pushing to get it to the floor. nancy pelosi said she will bring it to the floor. she is working hard to get the votes. we all are. >> that is not the hard part, though, congressman. the hard part is figuring out where you can agree on the domestic spending plan. . >> right. what i was about to say, we're

at the same time working on the reconciliation plan around the clock, as you noted in the opening, two senators were at the white house yesterday working late into the night, making very good progress. i'm optimistic. what we will do is get this infrastructure plan passed for the country. it is 2 million jobs a year. at the same time, we're going to keep moving on reconciliation and get that done. i'll tell you, i know where i am. i believe we have to get reconciliation done. it is important, from fighting climate change and s.a.l.t. to get taxes down, in my district, child care. there are so many priorities that we agree we need to get both done. but the idea that a small faction of democrats would hold up the president's agenda and vote against the infrastructure bill this week and all those hard-working men and women of labor, all those jobs, doesn't make any sense to me. we've got to get it done, and we will. >> well, the other side, jayapal

said a small number of democrats like manchin and you and sinema are holding up the package. he's missed. sinema went three times yesterday and won't tell anyone what she wants. listen. >> i have no idea what she wants. i don't think her colleagues know what she wants. i don't think the president knows what she wants. i don't think house moderates know what she wants. we said let's get in a room. let's negotiate. let's come up with a deal. and i just don't understand it. the president carried her state. >> do you know what she wants? >> well, i'll tell you this. everyone is working around the clock, including senator sinema, on getting it done. she was at the white house yesterday. obviously, i wasn't in that meeting. all i know is great progress was made. and we're going keep working

today. but, again, that doesn't mean these are two separate pieces of legislation. you don't hold up and not vote for an infrastructure package that is historic once in a century that will help fix everything from water, broadband, to fighting climate change to the gateway tunnel between new york and new jersey. you don't hold it up, hold it hostage while working on another piece of legislation. we're going to get both done. it doesn't make any sense to me that you have a faction of folks in my party that would blow up the president's agenda, refuse to vote on infrastructure as some sort of way to hold up progress. that's why i believe at the end of the day we will unify it and get it done. . >> why should ro khanna count on kyrsten sinema voting for the overall domestic agenda when they don't know that she will or what she supports? if she's not saying what she supports, how can they go into this and make any kind of teal? . >> that's exactly what we're

working on. legislating takes time. you are talking about a significant investment. we are working on both. she has made it clear she is willing to get something done. it's all why she is were spending all the hours working on this. i don't understand that argument. sit claiming we're not working on reconciliation -- >> do you have a number? if it's not $3.5 trillion, what's your number? >> i love you, but we're not going to negotiate on television here. >> but that's the problem. >> by the way, that's exactly what the members are working on. but, again, that's how we legislate. we're going back and forth. we're negotiating. and i hope today's we're going to get more guide answer, by the way, from every side. again, i bring you back to the simple fact what i'm confused about, why would anybody not vote when it comes to the floor for a bipartisan historic

infrastructure package to help get all the shovels in the ground and millions of jobs working. i just don't understand that. >> well, they say they were promised. >> it is too important. we're going to get it done. >> they say it was because they were promised on the vote of an overall domestic agenda plan, and they say they need to know what that plan is. do you think nancy pelosi will put infrastructure on the floor tomorrow? >> i do. because we will have the votes. no one is better than speaker pelosi than get the votes. just to get on some history here, back in august, every single democrat in the house voted to bring the infrastructure bill to the floor this week. why? because it's once some a century. it is critical to the president's agenda. and we've got to get moving on climate. hurricane ida destroyed so many parts of my district. there is so much on climate resiliency, transit, trains, amtrak with that horrific crash this past week. the idea we wouldn't do that makes no sense.

i'm with ro and my colleagues. we've got to also get reconciliation done. i'm committed to that. we're going the get behind the bill. we're working out the details. that's how legislation works. you don't hold a bill hostage. >> can i try one more time here. i assume some of your colleagues are watching. i want to put up on the screen some of the things in the bill. universal pre-k, child tax credits, obamacare subsidies, money to battle climate crisis, community college, pell grants, paid maternity leave. which don't you want? >> all of those things are things that i care about. the bottom line is this, though. when we work it out and work out the details, which we will, it's going to be a great bill for the country. it's going to be a great bill for the people that i represent in jersey. just like this infrastructure bill is going to be great for the country and for the people i

represent. so the bottom line is we have to get both done. and we will. it starts this week. on thursday we are voting for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. democrats and republicans will back it. showing the country we go come together and govern. and the same with the reconciliation bill. i said to my colleagues, you know we can come together. thank you, sir. >> thank you. that is such a compliment. let's talk about that and more with cnn anchor and chief national affairs analyst kasie hunt and analyst david gregory. we just heard from congressman got heimer. are you guys any clearer on where these infrastructure and social safety net bills stand? >> i barely know where i am this

morning. >> do you know your names? >> not after hearing that. the focus is on this level of micronegotiation. and what's really being lost is how this could change the country, for the better or worst, depending on your perspective. >> john put up that graphic and made it very clear. and said, okay, which of these things do you not want? that is the tricky piece of this. my big question, okay, what is pelosi going to do tomorrow and why? it doesn't seem progressives are willing to back down. a lot saying i'm sorry. we will vote no on this. it's a real test for her. we're constantly reporting, and she will say i won't put something on the floor if i don't think it's going to pass. but there has to be something to break this log jam. democrats cannot continue with this for another week. >> the obvious thing is you make it less expensive. you do less in that second bill, which is what they've talked

about, what manchin has talked about. i think the interesting generational test, it is not just about age but biden saying, look, democrats, this is what your president wants. like johnson, lyndon johnson, you better deliver. progressives, where else are you going to go? i question whether congress and our politics works like that anymore. i really think that's a bet. >> he is trying to make it work like that. we saw kyrsten sinema at the white house in multiple meetings, including with the president. it's really joe manchin and kyrsten sinema that hold the keys and democrats saying, what do they want? i'm looking at what all they say. no, i don't. i honestly don't know. king and durbin don't know. >> there is a sense on the hill, as much as manchin has been "outfront", it is probable they can bring him along.

but sinema was back and forth to the white house three times yesterday. twice with staff, once with the president. and everyone keeps asking them, the president asks directly, how much money are you willing to spend? give me a number and we'll figure it out. and they won't do it. that makes it unclear how we get out of this. that reconciliation position is tied up with the default. most of the headlines this morning, the top headlines are about the numbers on wall street yesterday, the panic about what's going to happen if they can't get it together. and this dysfunction is feeding uncertainty in way more than political ways. . >> and i think there is an undercurrent that takes me back to the financial collapse and the t.a.r.p. legislation, a mere 700 billion at the time. >> i remember. that went down. >> i was in the chamber. >> he was relying on republican votes. . >> it was. but part of my point was the reaction to all of that, crisis, huge government intervention,

and then readvantagement. what biden wants to accomplish in terms of generational change, a jfk moon shot comes after the height of the pandemic and a massive infusion of government spending to keep people afloat. and then after that, infrastructure, which i think people can get their heads around, republicans, too, understanding it is good politics and good policy. but then this massive spend to change the social safety net. it just gets into basic politics, too much government, way too much spending, and people back off and say too much. >> and i think, too, to circle back to david's first point, here, biden's mandate was to come in, not be donald trump, not be chaotic, govern competently and in a way americans could forget a little while they they needed to worry about what was going on in the white house. and we have congress seemingly not able to get it together. the president has to cancel a trip he was supposed to take

today in order to deal with this. it does not send that message of nonchaotic competence. and you can see in the poll numbers. >> let's talk liz cheney because cnn's mike warren said she is exploring future political options outside wyoming. she is attending a fund-raiser in texas with karl rove and george bush. and then she will speak at another event in new hampshire. is there a corridor for her? is there a motive other than winning for her there? >> i was having this thought the other night watching her on "60 minutes". she's positioning herself to run for president. she just has to get through this period, can she survive this trump period, whatever that is, and come out on the other side as a champion for conservative republicanism and at the same time with a kind of centrist

appeal because she showed courage. that could be a winning formula. that's what rattles around my head. whatever she's doing, when you're hanging out with former president biden, that's a slice of the republican party that is certainly not en vogue anymore. >> i asked liz cheney the day she was ousted as conference chair, how far would she go to prevent the form he president from coming back into office. and she essentially said she would do whatever it takes. if you speak to people who are close to her, it is very clear she is laying the groundwork to stand in his way in a republican primary. she has to win the house race first. if she loses in wyoming, hopes will be dashed. that is part of the reason she's willing to bring out all the big guns behind her, the fund-raiser that she's planning. and the new hampshire trips are designed to send signals.

they're media signals as much as anything else. i think if she is going to challenge him, the primary is the place where you would have to stop the former president. and that is an incredibly difficult challenge. >> so hard, yeah. >> i do, if you, again, speak to people close to her, i don't think she's under any illusions. i think maybe she was surprised of the nastiness of the response to her stepping out there. i don't think she thinks necessarily that -- all politicians are motivated by their own power and want to get themselves in there. i believe she does believe what she has been out there saying what she's saying. and the evidence is the fact that there is nobody else. >> i agree with that. i actually agree with that. i think she has a lot of integrity. it's not like she changed what she believes. she has certain boundaries she will stick to. i think it's very interesting.

unlike other people who are repub republicans, she has stood up with conviction. but so affiliated with the bush-cheney years, if that's what people accept. or paul ryan, he would like to run at some point if he sees a way back in. . >> it will be interesting to see her path. is it political grenade, political aspirations or a little bit of both. >> she has the stature to do it if that's what she wants to do. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, a lawyer for gabby petito's family claiming her ex-fiancee did go on a camping trip with his parents before he disappeared and now after, as we have learned, gabby petito died. cnn live on the ground as the taliban returned to their harsh rule. clarissa ward joins us.

plus, her journey to end gender violence 30 years ago when she claimed sexual harassment of clarence thomas. anita hill will join us live. p, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change.

the taliban takeover has brought a return to harsh rule in afghanistan, making life techly difficult for afghan women who enjoyed freedoms under the u.s.-backed government. cnn's la clarissa ward is live kabul. c clarissa, what have you been seeing? >> reporter: we have been talking about the social crisis here in regards to women who feel and see their rights being sub you gated in realtime and a return to medieval justice with

some of those these horrendous sights, bodies being hung as a warning to anyone telling them not to commit crimes. but the other real crisis facing afghans right now, brianna, is an economic crisis. and make no mistake about it. this country is on the precipice of a massive and severe economic recession fpt we're not just talking about purse strings being tightened. we are talking about starvation and hunger. what's happened is there is a total liquidity crisis. there is no cash coming in to afghanistan. the central bank has been effectively frozen. people can only take out about 200 u.s. dollars a week. there are long, long lines outside every bank inside the city. in this market where we are, we have been talking to people who are all complaining about the prices. 30% rise we're hearing in food

prices. 40% rise in fuel prices. more importantly perhaps, people are not getting paid. so people in the health care sector not getting paid. teachers not getting paid. all of this has a tremendous knock-on effect. and the end result of which potentially is not just a dire situation in which people are suffering and don't have enough money or food to take care of their families, but also a very real potential crisis coming from the taliban as it is facing challenges politically, in terms of security. this is just one more thing this new government is now having to grapple with as it struggles to get the outside world to recognize it, to unlock some of that funding. it's interesting. we talked to people who are real critics of the taliban. some of them want to see the world bank unfreeze the money. they want to see the imf unfreeze the money.

whatever their feels are about the taliban, at this stage this is a humanitarian crisis in the making. >> we heard u.s. generals testifying before the armed services committee that there was advice to president biden to leave a troop presence of 2,500 troops in afghanistan for an extended period of time. the president claimed in other cases he didn't get that advice. in either case, he didn't do it, right? he didn't want to do it. he didn't want to leave any troops there. your reaction to that? >> well, you know, i just have to say that i can only go by that people are saying on the ground here. honestly, for the most part, at this stage the whole debate about why did this happen, people have resigned themselves to the fact that the u.s. left, that the way in which the u.s. left many felt to be kind of abandonment, certainly chaotic, obviously lethal. and there's no amount of

reassurance that can be given at this stage to a lot of people to persuade them that indeed, you know, their best intentions were kept in the hearts of many who are making these political decisions. and i think more broadly speaking, of course, there are questions how this looks for the u.s., what are the optics going forward. you heard general milley yesterday in the hearings saying american credibility is under, i believe the expression he used, was under intense review and this could, in fact, be damaging to the u.s.'s reputation. but for the people on the ground here, john, i would say the focus really is on everyday survival at this stage. >> we are looking at the folks walking by your camera there, clarissa. i do see a few women. but really not many. >> reporter: it depends what area of town you're in. you do see women out on the streets. because this is a strange sort of transitional period where the

taliban is trying to ease off a little bit in terms of dictating how women should dress, how people should present themselves, whether they can shave, whether she can smoke cigarettes, for example. but at the same time, people see the writing on the wall. they see the direction things are moving in. they see the fact that girls above sixth grade can't go to schools anymore. girls can't go to university. women can't teach in universities. so a lot of them do choose in that sort of context to stay at home. and they are fearful what could happen to them. we went to an area of town with a lot of beauty parlors the other day. every single one of them, the photographs on the outside with women's faces have been defaced. what you are seeing literally is women being erased from the public space. and that's the fear here. so you do see some women dressing in the ways that many

of them would always have dressed here in kabul. but there is also a deep sense of unease and that this is likely a temporary situation and we won't know the full effect what the taliban government will change or bring for some months to come. >> essential reporting from kabul. thank you for that. >> one of the big topics of the war hearing, the hearing of the withdrawal from afghanistan, what about the americans who are still there? just in one of the flights carrying some of them is now stranded. we're actually going to talk to an american who has accompanied them. >> new york state now requiring health care workers be vaccinated. it has been wildly successful in boosting vaccination numbers. but there are a few holdouts. so why? >> the number of people who are hospitalized and die that are vaccinated is extremely low compared to those who are dying by the thousands every week of

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there's still efforts that are ongoing to evacuate american citizens and green card holders who are not able to get out of afghanistan before the u.s. troop withdrawal there. with me is brian stern, a first responder on 9/11. he is a u.s. veteran. and he is the founder of the nonprofit group project dynamo, which has been working, all volunteer, to bring americans and afghan partners back to the united states. okay. brian, thanks so much for being with us this morning. you are in abu dhabi in the uae. tell us who was on this flight and what happened? because you're kind of stuck.

>> yes. it's great to be here. we are in abu dhabi under restricted movement by the emirates who have been treating us more or less okay. the afghan-americans, most of whom are u.s. citizens and green card holders, we rescued them from kabul airport and got them to abu dhabi. our follow-on flight was approved, came here, was ready to go, was ultimately tkhraoeud landing clearance in the united states. and as a result we got stuck here. we've been here for almost two days and have been trying to get out. >> okay. so there was an arrangement, that's why the uae let you in, that the flight would go on to the u.s. but that has since been suspended. who are you talking to? how are you getting around this, if at all? >> we're talking to anybody and

everybody. we've engaged congressional leaders, policymakers, our donors, anybody and everybody. the reality is that you're exactly right. the agreement that was made and the understanding that was made between us and the emirates and also the u.s. government and the emirates, to a lesser degree, was that it's okay to use the uae to evacuate americans and others provided that they don't really stay here. so by killing our second flight, we basically violated that rule, through no fault of our own. >> look, these are american passportholders, green card holders. and i understand you have a few special immigrant visa folks. but those are fully approved folks who are entitled to go to the u.s. i want you to listen to something that secretary of defense austin said yesterday on the hill.

>> what is the administration's current best estimate of the number of americans that are in afghanistan? >> senator, according to state, there are currently fewer than 100 citizens who want to depart and are ready to leave. we got out 21 american citizens today, along with their family members. and we'll continue to work this, as you have heard us say earlier. the numbers fluctuate daily. and -- because more people come to light as time goes by and they see opportunities to safely leave. and so this has been a dynamic process. but, again, we will stay focused on this. >> all right. he said, bryan, 21 american citizens and their family members getting out yesterday of

afghanistan. is that, to your knowledge, your group that he's talking about? what's he talking about there? >> we're at 116 total that we did in this movement from the airport yesterday. there are many americans that we know of that are in afghanistan that want to leave but they want to leave with their families is the big differentiatdifferentia. i believe the secretary of defense when he says that people who want to leave, the caveat and the nuance is there is they want to leave with their families. and if their families don't have the right documentation, they cannot leave. therefore, they don't want to leave. that's when you get to a big delta in the numbers as far as who is there and who wants to go versus who wants to go with their families and all that. . >> look, bryan, we will keep

tracking this flight as you wait to see what happens. we know these are all people with the proper, as you say, papers to get into the u.s. so we'll be in touch. bryan stern, thank you so much. >> absolutely. thank you so much. thanks for having me. so what is going on in the nba? some players are refuse to go get vaccinated and are giving pretty nonscientific answers for why they are not. plus, covid doesn't care what party you belong to. right now it is taking a much higher toll on one group of americans. one, two! one, two, three! only pay for what you need! with customized car insurance from liberty mutual! nothing rhymes with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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crisis. but the worst forms are increasingly concentrated in red america. joining me now is cnn politics reporter chris cilizza. . >> this is gallup. adults with at least one, this is stunning. 36%. 92% of democrats vaccinated, at least one shot. republicans, just over half. now, why, you ask? well, a couple reasons. complex. but remember this? this is donald trump when he got back from walter reed hospital after being treated for covid-19. he symbolically rips his mask off. this is a man who said it was going to go away, poof, it will disappear like a miracle. skepticism about masks. skepticism about science. and then he was amplified by fox news channel. yes, tucker carlson.

repeatedly suggesting this is about freedom rather than public health. laura ingraham as well. now, what has that brought? 92% of democrats, at least one dose of 56% republicans. what does that translate into real world numbers? okay. these are cases. look at this. look at the difference here. this is republicans versus democrats. just to remind you, and i will remind you in the next two slides as well, this does not have to be a partisan issue. this is about public health. june 30th through september 28th, we are talking over 40 per 100,000 people in the hospital here versus under 20 if you're a

democrat. doesn't have to be partisan. this is the worst of them all. this is deaths. you know, look. i feel like we could do a million. they're all the same. biden won states, relative live low per 100,000. trump won states, it's up high. over and over again, red covid. yes, the delta variant is where we are. the truth of the matter is we are living in two americas, blue and red america. in red america, covid is still, still raging, causing hospitalizations, causing deaths. it did not have to be this way. >> no, it certainly didn't. >> the partisan issue is predominant and may be the most serious issue. it's not just politics. we see in the nba with over 90% of the players vaccinated with prominent ones not vaccinated. we did learn that lebron james finally got vaccinated. . >> yes. >> but listen to what he said.

. >> i know that i was very skeptic about it all. after doing my research and things of that nature, i felt it was best suited for me, my family and my friends. that's why i decided to do it. we're talking individual's bodies. we're not talking about something that's political or racism or police brutality and things of that nature. we're talking about people's bodies and well-beings. so i don't feel like for me personally that i should get involved in what other people should do for their bodies and their livelihoods. >> it is good for him that people got vaccinated. but it is a missed opportunity for him not to tell people to get vaccinated. >> big time. about ig time. look, a lot of players. kyrie irving, kyle kuzma, andrew wiggins who said i need to do more research, et cetera, et cetera. i'm glad lebron said i got it. let's just give him credit there. that said, the argument that

this is an individual decision, i have a 9-year-old, john, he can't be vaccinated yet. we want to reduce the number of people who can get this and get seriously ill so the virus doesn't continue to mutate in ways that could endanger people, whether the immunocompromised or the young who can't get it. it is not just an individual decision. sit a public health, societal good decision. i feel that's the message we need to push. it is not just about you. it is about all of us. . >> and lebron james, if you found research, share the research. chris, thanks very much for being with us. >> thanks, john. so damning claims by one of donald trump's former press secretaries, including how he tried to kick a cnn reporter out of the press corps. that reporter joins us live. plus, anita hill joins us live on supreme court justice clarence thomas and where american society is right now. three decades after she spoke up.

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it's been nearly 3 years since anita hill's dramatic testimony as the senate considered clarence thomas' confirmation to the u.s. supreme court. the hearings brought the issue of workplace sexual harassment to the public spotlight and now in her new book "believing: our 30-year journey to end gender violence," she talks about what it was like to testify before the senate judiciary committee chaired by then senator joe biden. >> can you tell the committee what was the most embarrassing of all the incidences that you have alleged? >> i think the one that was the most embarrassing was the discussion of -- of pornography involving these women with large

breasts and engaged in a variety of sex with different people or animals. >> you testified this morning in response to senator biden that the most embarrassing question involved, this is not too bad, women's large breasts, that's a word we use all the time, that was the most embarrassing aspect of what judge thomas had said to you. >> joining us now is the author of "believing" and professor of social policy law and women's and gender studies at brandeis university, anita hill. anita, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> it's a pleasure to be here. >> i listen to that moment and that comment from the late senator from pennsylvania, arlen

specter, and i -- i'm sure many others cringe. i wonder when you look back on that time period, what has changed to you and what hasn't changed? >> well, that kind of language hasn't changed. i mean, it is still out there. it is still a tactic people use to diminish the pain and the experience of sexual harassment or rape or sexual assault. all forms of gender violence that are at an extremely high and dangerous level in this country. >> that's one of the things you talk a lot about in your book, which is the rhetorical downplaying of sexual harassment is a -- it is really key to its perpetuation, right? >> absolutely. you know, you hear -- and it happens to us, the language that, you know, it is not so bad, or, you know, don't make a

big deal out of it, starts with us when we're very young. i'm sure if you did a poll in your office, you would find many of the women and perhaps some of the men too have heard this phrase over and over, whenever they complain about being harmed by someone else's behavior. and what we're doing with that kind of language is we're grooming people to dismiss their own pain, and redefining it as not so bad, or painful, and nothing that they should be complaining about. and then, you know, we wonder when they grow up why they don't complain about sexual harassment in the workplace or sexual assault or rape. and so we need to change our cultural approach to these issues. we need to change our approach to survivors and victims. if we want them to come forward. >> i know you watched kathleen blasey ford's opening statement

in her testimony before the committee during the confirmation of now supreme court justice brett kavanaugh. and i know that you have since met with her. what did you think watching her? >> well, what i thought was, you know, the second part of what i wanted to discuss which is that the process hadn't changed. that the process hadn't changed in any appreciable way, that the process -- that there was still between 1991 and 2018 there still hadn't been put into place a complaint process so that christine blasey ford could submit her complaint about justice kavanaugh's behavior, that it could be fully investigated, and that there could be a fair and open hearing for her to be heard and for there to be a reasonable response to the allegations.

and we, as far as i know, there still is no process in place. and that's really the problem in many instances. we talk about the behavior and we talk about the cultural aspects of gender violence and what perpetuates it. but what is also troubling is the fact that we put people who have complaints into processes that are not meant to help them. and we have examples of this that, you know, we have been -- i've been hearing from people for 30 years now, and each time you hear that they were put in a process, that they didn't understand, and there was no clarity of, no transparency, no assurance that the complaint would be investigated, much less any kind of accountability, and so we need to think not only

about the behavior, but we need to think about the culture, we need to think about and revise our processes. >> that's very much what your book deals with, talking about gender, violence and sexual harassment as it relates to so many things and we certainly appreciate you, anita hill, coming on the show to talk about it. thank you so much. >> and can i also say that it really does deal about the last 30 years and the thousands of people and the stories that i have heard from survivors and victims and how we as a country and especially our leaders can come together, acknowledge that this is a crisis problem in our society, and commit to doing something about it. >> yeah, i know your testimony unleashed the stories of so many people and you tell so many of those in your book. the book is "believing." "new day" continues right now. >>